On Jun 28, 3:03-pm, "Chris F.A. Johnson" <cfajohn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Nice idea ... a one man campaign to banish the horizontal scroll?
> - - Nope. To eliminate horizontal scroll, you do not specify any
> - - widths.
> - - This is to get a better idea of what the typical viewer will see.
> - - For example, I am designing a page with three columns of text.

If you have 3 columns of text then it sounds like you need to be
looking at Flexible width sites rather than worrying about it.

On Jun 28, 2:53-pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:
> Not at all. -Such a survey is pointless. -Those who have been around for
> a while have learned that. -Newbies need to be taught it over and over
> again.
>
> Design the page correctly and the content adjusts itself to any window
> size within reason.

Well that is one way to design,the other is to have it be fixed
width. Both are equally correct based on the website.

And before we start another boring thread, lets just agree we have
different opinions about what is "correct"

Travis Newbury wrote:
> On Jun 28, 2:53 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>> Not at all. Such a survey is pointless. Those who have been around for
>> a while have learned that. Newbies need to be taught it over and over
>> again.
>>
>> Design the page correctly and the content adjusts itself to any window
>> size within reason.
>
> Well that is one way to design,the other is to have it be fixed
> width. Both are equally correct based on the website.
>

Yep, amateurs design fixed width sites. Professionals design sites
which resize themselves.

> And before we start another boring thread, lets just agree we have
> different opinions about what is "correct"


--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

On 2008-06-28, Travis Newbury wrote:
> On Jun 28, 3:03-pm, "Chris F.A. Johnson" <cfajohn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Nice idea ... a one man campaign to banish the horizontal scroll?
>> - - Nope. To eliminate horizontal scroll, you do not specify any
>> - - widths.
>> - - This is to get a better idea of what the typical viewer will see.
>> - - For example, I am designing a page with three columns of text.
>
> If you have 3 columns of text then it sounds like you need to be
> looking at Flexible width sites rather than worrying about it.

Any page I design *is* flexible width (with the exception of the
survey page). That's not the point.

I want to know how what I see in my browser window compares with
what others see. If most people see less text than I do, I will
probably abandon my 3-column design. If, as I suspect, most see
more, then the design will work better for most people than it
does for me -- and for me it is readable, but not quite optimum.

> For example, I am designing a page with three columns of text.

--
Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster <http://Woodbine-Gerrard.com>
================================================== =================
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)

Travis Newbury wrote:
> On Jun 28, 5:05 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>> Yep, those amateurs who are screwing their clients, telling the clients
>> they are "professionals".
>> Just because you can find some sucker to pay you doesn't make you
>> "professional". It just means you got paid.
>
> Yea, suck doesn't it...

Yep, con artists can usually find a sucker who will pay. Fortunately,
professionals stand out. Much of that is the quality of their work.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

On Jun 28, 6:05-pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:
> Yep, con artists can usually find a sucker who will pay. -Fortunately,
> professionals stand out. -Much of that is the quality of their work.

Jerry, fortune 500 companies and advertising agencies are paying top
buck for people that can produce quality Interactive websites. As
hard as it seems to be for you to understand, it's what they want. I
don't give a ---- if a few people in alt.html think what I do is
amateur or wrong. I have a great time producing them and there is an
awesome market for them.

And go ahead and say something dumb like, "Just because they want them
doesn't make them right" becasue you know what? It DOES make them
right. And why do you give a ---- anyway, I welcome you to try to get
them to change their mind.

You just keep on working on your mom and pop sites (because I
completely believe that THEY need to make sites exactly like you
want). But if you were to suggest the same kind of site for a company
I work with they would laugh you out of the door. When it comes to
corporate sites, you are the amateur. And in 10 years there will be
all new technologies for you to not understand, fear, and condemn.

And as Flash gets more and more accessable with each version, we will
see more and more call for these "amateur sites" I create. Flash/
Slverlight and what ever new technology is around the cornor is just
going to keep growing no matter what you think is right.

Sorry that bothers you so much.

Travis Newbury wrote:
> On Jun 28, 6:05 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>> Yep, con artists can usually find a sucker who will pay. Fortunately,
>> professionals stand out. Much of that is the quality of their work.
>
> Jerry, fortune 500 companies and advertising agencies are paying top
> buck for people that can produce quality Interactive websites. As
> hard as it seems to be for you to understand, it's what they want. I
> don't give a ---- if a few people in alt.html think what I do is
> amateur or wrong. I have a great time producing them and there is an
> awesome market for them.
>

Yep, I used to be a FTE of IBM, and I still contract to them and other
companies. And they appreciate *professional* looking websites much
more than fixed width ----.

But you can con them for a while. Eventually they will go to a
professional to straighten out the crap you wrote. They all do when
they figure out they've been conned.

> And go ahead and say something dumb like, "Just because they want them
> doesn't make them right" becasue you know what? It DOES make them
> right. And why do you give a ---- anyway, I welcome you to try to get
> them to change their mind.
>

No, it doesn't. It means they don't KNOW what they want. I educate
them as to their options - along with everything else. And you know
what? Every one of them picks a site that adjusts to the window size
when shown the options.

I've gotten quite a few customers from amateurs like you when they see
what they *can* have. OTOH, I've never LOST one to a con man like you.

And BTW - I don't follow alt.html.

> You just keep on working on your mom and pop sites (because I
> completely believe that THEY need to make sites exactly like you
> want). But if you were to suggest the same kind of site for a company
> I work with they would laugh you out of the door. When it comes to
> corporate sites, you are the amateur. And in 10 years there will be
> all new technologies for you to not understand, fear, and condemn.
>

Guess again. My customers are mainly Fortune 500. You would easily
recognize every single one of them.

> And as Flash gets more and more accessable with each version, we will
> see more and more call for these "amateur sites" I create. Flash/
> Slverlight and what ever new technology is around the cornor is just
> going to keep growing no matter what you think is right.
>
> Sorry that bothers you so much.

How you screw your customers doesn't bother me at all, con man. But it
will bother you a lot when I, or another professional like me, takes
them away from you.

Face it - you're a neophyte amateur with absolutely no idea what you're
doing. Once of these days you're going to get your butt sued for
everything you have. Then you'll come crying. And I'll be laughing.

But in the meantime, what I do care about is that you and the likes of
you give professionals a bad reputation.


--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

On Jun 28, 8:41-pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:
> No, it doesn't. -It means they don't KNOW what they want. -

why of course...

> But in the meantime, what I do care about is that you and the likes of
> you give professionals a bad reputation.

Yea, that's me, just giving all you "professionals" a bad name....
Grow up and except the fact that not everyone want's what Jerry thinks
is best.

Travis Newbury wrote:
> On Jun 28, 8:41 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>> No, it doesn't. It means they don't KNOW what they want.
>
> why of course...
>
>> But in the meantime, what I do care about is that you and the likes of
>> you give professionals a bad reputation.
>
> Yea, that's me, just giving all you "professionals" a bad name....
> Grow up and except the fact that not everyone want's what Jerry thinks
> is best.
>

Or maybe you should grow up and learn that you're not even a half-assed
web designer.

ROFLMAO!

I'll tell you what. Let's take one of your customers. Let me give him
my designs for his site. Wanna see how long they stay with you?

Then we'll turn it around. You can off your crap to one of my
customers. Wanna bet they stick with me?

I know you won't take the bet, though. You may be stoopid, but you
aren't that stoopid.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Travis Newbury <TravisNewbury@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Jun 28, 4:01=A0pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>> > Well that is one way to design,the other is to have it be fixed
>> > width. =A0Both are equally correct based on the website.
>> Yep, amateurs design fixed width sites. =A0Professionals design sites
>> which resize themselves.
>
>Yea, those ---- highly paid amateurs...

The computer industry is full of cowboys. Just because they blag some
poor sucker into paying out lots of money for shoddy work does not
make the shoddy work any less shoddy, or the "amateur" any less
professional in their trade.

Matt


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